In This Moment’s Chris Howorth Doesn’t Like Sub-Genres
February 13, 2009 by Scott
If you’ve been following Metal Martyr since it’s birth back in July of 2007, then you may have seen an article I wrote about sub-genres (Part 1 & 2). While my absolutely atrocious typing, spelling and grammar have improved a bit over time (I’m borderline illiterate at times), my views on sub-genres has changed a bit too. A lot of things have changed since then and my outlook on a few things have changed as well.
I feel that there is a need for certain sub-genres to classify metal but at the same time I feel that it has got way out of hand, especially with sub-genre mixing and combinations. I can sympathize with how In This Moment guitarist Chris Howorth is feeling. How many bands get classified as something that they don’t feel they are or want to be? Ollie Herbert doesn’t like All That Remains being called a Metalcore band and Vincent Bennett of The Acacia Strain doesn’t like being called a Deathcore band. Any band that has come out of the Mass area in the last 10 years is bound to be tied to a ‘core type of band. That’s just the way it is I guess.
Chris Howorth recently guest blogged for Headbanger’s Blog and talked about his confusion and disgust for so many sub-genres.
As a kid growing up in the late ’80s and early ’90s, I always loved heavy music. It started with Kiss, Metallica, Motley Crue, Ratt, Bon Jovi, Megadeth, Testament, W.A.S.P., Slayer, AC/DC, Priest, Maiden, Sabbath, Ozzy, Pantera, ect. Basically, I listened to any and all the great rock and metal bands I could. Sonically, I knew some of these bands were different from each other, whether they had louder guitars, more singing, screaming or shouting. And they looked different, too, from the way they dressed and acted. But all these bands were considered metal or hard rock. I don’t know when the need to label every genre or subgenre with all these ridiculous names started, but it has really gotten out of hand.
Read the rest at Headbanger’s Blog.
Imahe: Newscom
I think that sub-genres are important to many metal fans as they help define a type of sound. Genres are useful, but if you try to talk metal to different people, they can define it very differently than you, or the next guy, or your mom. I love metal, and I have friends who love metal, and I meet metalheads all the time, but how do we explain to each other where our interests and tastes lie? I know there is a certain level of ridiculousness to the level of sub-genres some people like to tote, but I think you can generally bubble most bands into about 8-10 core sub-genres.
If I want to listen to new metal, it can be a pain in the ass to sample tons of bands, getting the right songs, and not breaking your wallet. Hell it’s hard enough to filter everything when you download it for free! There are just too many variables, you need the right experience, every band has a few songs that are way different sounding that the rest and what if that is the one you listen to and it throws you off from a band you might have otherwise loved? What about old stuff compared to new stuff? If my friend who likes the same sub-genres as me tells me about a band in one of those sub-genres, I’m much more likely to listen to it as I know as a rough guideline it will fit into the type of music I enjoy. Every band is different, learns from each others, are inspired by many, and wants to do their own original thing, but in many cases, there are still similarities with other bands that you can identify.
It is unfortunate that some bands get grouped into the same sub-genres as others bands they don’t like or think they are similar to. Nobody wants to be defined by somebody else. But if your band does sound like a number of other bands in that sub-genre, you are probably gonna get pegged and you need to rely on other means of getting what you want. It’s hard to get unlabeled in anything in life. Look at how you dress and act.
Back in the day, Metal was Metal! It wasn’t very defined, it was newer, emerging, those were the bands that inspired everyone to form their bands, and from there it grew exponentially. You can’t lump everything together forever, but it will always be a challenge to categorize a sound. Unfortunately for some perception is reality.
Think about this, what do you feel about putting the sounds of Blind Guardian next to Slayer, and just calling it Metal? Does that sit alright with you? And how does that appear to outsiders of metal? (well that last question is a whole ‘nother conversation)
Sub-genres can get out of hand as metal continues to grow and bands continue to evolve, people can be mislabeled, or not want to be labeled, but sub-genres are helpful for people to share and try to categorize their interests, to know what they like, and to share and differentiate themselves from others. If we didn’t have them, we’d all be trying to explain bands to each other in terms of parts of songs of bands we may or may not know.
Rock on \m/
I personally love Progressive, Power/Symphonic, Industrial, Melodic-Death, and a few more, but those are the bands I tend to get pumped about most easily.
If you read the first posts from way back, I was out of touch and now I understand the need for different sub-genres…to an extent. I’m just saying that it has got wayyyy out of hand with the mixing of Subgenres.
In a post from about a week ago I mentioned something about blackened deathcore and how stupid is would sound and then someone refed to Abigail Williams because Metal Archives has them lisited as that. If I was to explain that band to someone I would tell them that Abigail Williams is an American Black Metal band. Thats what they are. There is no core to it. Maybe you could call them Blackened Death metal but not really. Just because a band has some other influenced sounds to them doesn’t mean that they need a piece of that sub-genres. All thes “Core” bands probably couldn’t name one REAL hardcore band with maybe the exception of Hatebreed because they are the most mainstream.
And if you’re downloading music for free than you have nothing to complain about. If you hear of a band and hear good things about them, just sample then regardless of what sub-genre they are. If you like them, who gives a shit what sub-genre they are?
yeah, in terms of metal archives, that site is kind of ridiculous on the sub genres stuff and so much stuff has popped up in the last few years with core attached it, and I’ve never heard anything good about bands whose genre ends in “core”, so I understand why some people would be upset if someone stuck you in there (but that’s just what I’ve heard). I’m just here to say that genres help to a degree, but I agree a lot of people have gone way too far. I haven’t read much of your stuff before, I just found you twitter a few days ago, so I wasn’t quite clear on your stance although I had idea you were more middle ground.
Anyways, I know with most of my metal friends we suggest stuff to each other all the time, and it still takes us weeks or months before we get around to sampling it, even if it is in a sub-genre we like! Sometimes its just hard to sit down and dedicate some listening time to the new stuff when you feel like rocking to the old stuff, and I find that if I do too much else while listening I don’t pay enough attention to pay it proper respects and make a judgment call.
I agree with you that sub-genre’s don’t define how good or bad a band are, they are just an organization tool, and everyone uses that tool to project their thoughts a different way, but if a band is good and you like them, it doesn’t matter where they fit.
I’ll look forward to your future articles.
“Sometimes its just hard to sit down and dedicate some listening time to the new stuff when you feel like rocking to the old stuff, and I find that if I do too much else while listening I don’t pay enough attention to pay it proper respects and make a judgment call.”
Jesus, I know the truth to that. I get so much music and listen a lot when I’m working. Some stuff that I really didn;t like much before like Dissection, I’ve ended up listening all the way through while working and really enjoyed it. Sometimes when you try too hard to really listen and analyze, it can become a burden. Sometimes it’s best to listen a few times while working to let it kind of sink in before making a good judgment call. Some bands take more than a single listen, but if it strikes me as annoying the first time to the point that I can’t even listen while doing something else because it’s such a distraction, that’s when I have to sit down and start braking it down and projecting exactly why it annoys me…the the new Psyopus. I really wanted to like it at first but it just got under my skin and I couldn’t help but hate it. That doesn’t mean they aren’t talented musicians, it just means that I don’t care for what they do.