No Talking Politics In School…WTF?
October 7, 2008 by Scott
So I was reading on Blabbermouth about this girl who wore the Machine Head T-shirt (Clenching The Fists Of Decent War T-shirt) in the picture to the right to school and was told to change it. Obviously this can be wrong in my opinion for a lot of reasons. But first read this (From Machine Head Forums):
A couple weeks ago I bought the war T-shirt from the machine head store and I got it in the mail yesterday and I wore it to school today. The shirt that says "war, lies, fear, change" on the back. Well, when I got to school today, my English teacher told me I couldn’t wear it and I had to call home to get a different shirt.
well, I had no idea, but her son is in Iraq right now. I mean, I know it has a lot to do with politics and everything. but it’s not like I was talking about it or anything. Because they tell us at school that we’re not supposed to talk about religion or politics. but half the kids in that school don’t really give a shit or they’re just too dumb to know anything. Did they have any right in telling me to take it off ?
First off, it’s a T-shirt with four words on it. Yes it may be a political statement and it doesn’t matter if the teacher has a son, daughter, or dog in Iraq. How the hell does a school ask people not to talk politics? This country runs on politics. Do they even teach politics and if not how do they teach economics, history or U.S. government? I can understand religion not being talked about in school, but politics? Again, this is a shirt with four words on it and no obscene words at all. That’s bullshit, plain and simple. So if she were to wear a T-shirt that said "Let Freedom Ring", would she have had to take it off? Of course not, even though it’s a political statement. Are Christian kids told to put their cross necklaces inside their shirts? Probably not, but if it was a peace sign I bet they might? Schools and policies are all fuckered up these days.
I can understand the need for perhaps a mild dress-code in schools. Band T-shirts, unless they present something obscene, have foul language or vulgar statements on it, should not be an issue. This is a pretty tame shirt if you ask me. You can oppose the war without opposing the people that are sent over there to fight. If I was this child’s parent I would definitely have a meeting with the teacher and superintendent about this. If people are allowed to wear the little yellow ribbon pins on their ties and lapels, then that is just as much a political statement than a simple shirt that protests the war.
Some other ass on the message board complained about uniforms, to which this has no bearing, because if you don’t like wearing a uniform than you should try to transfer to a less uppity school. When I went to high school most of the douches in my class were the new age dead heads that wore Grateful Dead T-shirts. If they had something like a marijuana leaf on them, they would be asked to change it. That’s understandable, I don’t feel that I have to explain. People are just too god damned sensitive these days. I think I’m going to buy that T-shirt now. This is a case of denial of freedom of speech. If the school wants to put a policy in effect they need to draw out some details instead of making it possible for people to censor simple, commonly used words.
However to close this out I do feel that at no time you should let your child wear an Avenged Sevenfold T-shirt to school…that’s just stupid.
Buy That T-Shirt Hear and wear it proudly to school every day for a week!
Image Source: Machinehead1.com
Got that right, people just too fucking sensitive these days, like don’t SAY that because somebody get offended, don’t DO that ’cause somebody else will get offended, will get mad or will cry, don’t WEAR that ’cause others will get offended, I don’t know what the FUCK is happening to us.
Whatever happened to the days that you could express how you feel without having to worry if your words are politically correct. Sure there are some reasonable limitations, but Christ it’s getting ridiculous.
It is cause of stuff like this that I am becoming more and mor in favor of uniforms / shirts and ties in school.
Freedom of speech is one of the most important parts of the constitution. But Freedom of Speech cannot infringe upon the rights of others. I cannot go around addressing all women as the c-word because I am assaulting them. Maybe I would like to do that ( I don’t ) but I can’t and freedom of Speech does not allow me to do that. One of my best friends in high school was a young woman who was raised as an incredibly sheltered Jehovah’s Witness. The bullet holes on the shirt would have offended her ( sad I know, but true ).
Also, this is a public high school. Most likely the dress code includes the statement ,” as deemed offensive by school administration.” So that’s it. If the representative of the school doesn’t like your shirt, go home and change. Life sucks, you have no recourse.
I agree with you Scott that this kind of policy has to be across the board. Teachers should also be held within limitations when it comes to expressing their beliefs as well ( i.e. lapel pins, political buttons, stuff like that ).
I think in the end it comes down to this- your education in this country is free until you are 18 ( well, sorta of free, I own a home, so I pay taxes…I digress). Take advantage of that. You want to fight the system because of a t-shirt, more power to you, but get ready to lose. Choose your battles wisely. Some just aren’t worth fighting.
oh and one more thing…MACHINE HEAD RULZ!!!!
once again, with limitations. Calling a woman a cunt isn’t expressing your freedom of speech. It’s being an asshole. There’s a difference.
This isn’t the Cradle Of Filth “Jesus Is a Cunt” masturbating nun t-shirt, or a drill bit in the anus Pantera far beyond driven t-shirt. it’s a pretty tame t-shirt.
Next they’ll be sending my son home to change his Darth Vader t-shirt because he wielding a light-saber and that’s a weapon.
Bottom line is, that a lot of thing offend a lot of people, but there are just little thing that people need to learn to be tolerable of and just get over it. My gym teachers super-tight shorts. There are some things that issues don’t need to be pressed on and if they want a specific dress code they need to set examples of what is and is not acceptable long before they have to enforce it.
Heh, that’s just ridiculous, plain and simple.
You cannot order a child to remove a shirt for something as small as four words that imply corruption.
Thankfully, they don’t do that to us down here (Aus), it takes a shirt with a big fat ‘fuck’ on it to warrant removal. Let’s just say… they don’t like Divine Heresy’s ‘This Threat is Fucking Real’
Thats why when I went I went for the more tame DH T=shirt without that on the back.
my high school was pretty shitty with shirts as well. i couldn’t wear a bad religion shirt because it was deemed offensive even though it was a one of the politcal american shirts, and i’m up in bloody canada.
the problem is it is left to the school’s “administration” to deem what is neccessary and all that really takes is for one teacher to suppress and opinions that the students may have. it sucks because what one person sees as an anti-war statement, others will interpret as a anti-country/troops statement and treat it as such.
the high schools have changed a lot with the “no kid left behind” policy and become a lot more sheltered and sugar coated. i just made the jump from high school to college, and they really don’t prepare you worth a shit for anything college can pitch your way.
My friend got kicked out of the mall for wearing a shirt of a nun masturbating with a cross and it said jesus is a cunt on it
Malls are private property. If the owner of the mall wanted to kick out everyone who has blonde hair, they can do that. It is their right.
One more thing…it is pretty much assumed that rights guaranteed in the constitution apply to adults only. Until you are 18, you can’t run around saying I have this right or that right. Because until that point you are solely the responsibility of your parents . My wife works for social services and she has shown me documentation where this is layed out.
So, she has a son in Iraq, whom she most likely invokes as “fighting for your freedom”. Apparently that doesn’t apply in this kids case? Seems kind of hypocritical, in a blatant way.
No foul language or explicit images, I see no problem. If the kid wore a shirt supporting the war, would she be as vocal about him removing it? I bet not, even though it is equally as political, just in the opposite direction. Having a son in the war doesn’t make her immune from having to tolerate others right to dissent, just like my having friends and family in Iraq doesn’t mean I can insist that the people I run across in my daily life conform to my political viewpoint.
Way to teach kids about our cherished American heritage.
Sounds like this teacher needs to find a new career! Maybe in the military? It is absolutely inappropriate for a teacher to impress their particular political view onto students! WHAT HAPPENED TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH? Freedom as long as its their way! How can they say that you are not allowed to wear a shirt with a political statement when they are making a political statement by making you take it off? I’ll put it in the immortal words of MetallicA….Freedom of choice is made for you my friend, Freedom of speech is words that they will bend, Freedom no longer frees you. The greatest fallacy that Americans believe in is the concept of freedom. No one is free in this day and age!
That is total bullshit. Teachers are not allowed to do that. At least not at my school “well when i was in school” I had a friend that had a Propagandi shirt that had George Bush and Bush senior, I don’t remember exactly but one of them was wearing a mask and Hitler was underneath. Anyway one of our Administrators got offended by it and tried to tell him to take it off but he ended up not having to because it was a political shirt. It was in our Code of conduct book that you could wear political stuff as long as it had no nudity or “Bad words” on it.
Oh and that Izzy person your a tool. Americans are BORN with rights. You don’t have to wait till your 18 for them to kick in. Of course you have to do what your parents say but you still have rights as an American.
I had a similar situation at school(I am 25 now). When Aerosmith (I know, not exactly metal (-:) came out with the album 9 lives, I had a t-shirt from the concert, the print on the front offended a teacher, because it had a cat tied up in a cauldron, and the cat happened to have a bit of cleavage showing (ironically there was a girl in a spaghetti strap tank next to me, bursting out of the top, and nothing was done about that). I had worn the shirt like 20 times before this without incident. She requested I turn the shirt inside out, I literally told her to shove it. She called my mom, and my mom basically told her the same thing I did(for once not being stuck up). School administrators got involved and all kinds of stuff, and the stuck up cunt got her way, sort of. I wore the shirt for the next month, everyday, after washing of course, with a thin strip of black tape over her “cleavage” and one over her mouth. I got heat over that too, but since it was not technically showing she couldn’t do shit about it. That and my mom told her that she was petty and brought it up at every school meeting, especially the public ones, wearing an identical copy of the shirt. It was a cartoon cat for one, her “dirty parts” for the most part were covered up, and I mean Aerosmith?!?!
Sorry D, but I have to disagree ( and I disagree because you are wrong ). You have the right to bear arms, but I have never seen a 10 years old carrying a shotgun as he or she strolled down the street. You have the right to freedom of speech, but if you were to step up to me and threaten me, I will have you arrested. You have the right to freedom of assembly, but if a group of Klansmen has a klan meeting in the middle of your town park without a permit, they will be arrested and fined. My daughter has never voted. Why ? She is 6 and according to the law she can’t vote.
My point is this. The constitution gives you rights ( the rights are for adults, not children but that point is often debated ). If you think freedom of speech allows you unfettered expression, you do not understand the concept of the amendment. I say it again. Take off the shirt, enjoy your free education. When you are done with high school dress however you please.
Izzy,
We aren’t talking about hate speech, threats, libel, slander, yelling fire in a crowded theater, etc here. This was political speech. It didn’t threaten anyone, and you don’t have the right to not be offended by someone’s display of political ideology, regardless of age. The idea of limiting what topics are up for discussion in a publicly funded school strikes me as completely backwards.
When I was in highschool we had two exchange students in our school one year. One was from Yugoslavia, another was from Albania. This was the year that the U.N. intervened in the civil war in the Balkans. The Yugoslavian kid wore a bullseye on his shirt as a form of protest. The Albanian girl was very offended, and they regularly got in shouting matches in the halls. Regardless, they were allowed to continue as long as long as they kept things relatively civil. In that light, some woman having a knee-jerk reaction to a kids shirt seems pretty silly and should have never went beyond her being told to shut up and deal with it.
Also, Izzy, all of your examples are irrelevant. Kids don’t own guns for obvious reasons, and they can’t vote because of similar reasons, but no one should argue that the right to express your thoughts begins at a certain age because somehow if kids were allowed to express themselves verbally or symbolically something unfortunate might happen. The two situations are just miles apart in their set of consequences.
My reasons are not irrelevent. This is the logical response to D and his assertation that your rights are earned at birth when the truth is they are not. D said in his post that American rights kick in at birth. I say if that is true show me a 6 yr old who owns a gun and votes. The rights guaranteed by the constitution are governed by the states. That means yes, you will have your rights, but under allowable legal restrictions as seen fit by the state you are in.
And a public school must be a comfortable environment for everyone. Hence the name….a public school. Your example of the Yogoslavin kid’s shirt and the regular shouting matches in the school halls is a situtation that should have been dealt with by school administration.
I am all for self expression, intellectual discourse in schools, etc. People are different and deserve forums to be different. But a public school must be a place where all potential students are in a comfortable learning environment. If you want different spend the bucks for some private school that reflects your desires for your kid.
I don’t support censorship. I own more then enough offensive heavy metal shirts. I listen to all the ” Offensive ” music ( plus alot of hard core rap as well ). But I know where it is right and wrong to do such stuff. And a public school is the wrong place to fight that battle. I say it again- School uniforms are an excellent idea.
But the right of gun ownership is a completely different issue, regardless of what D said, and has no bearing on free-speach. The shirt this kid was wearing was no more offensive than something you could see in a textbook discussing the Vietnam War.
Just because it is a public school does not mean you must draw the line of offensiveness at the level of the most easily offended person in that school. It’s simply not possible, and definitely not realistic policy. There were plenty of times when things kids did in school offended me, but part of growing up is learning how to deal with people who hold different views than you.
Again, this is a school, and determining which topics are off limits for students to be discussing or expressing views on is diametrically opposed to the idea of what an institution of learning is, at a fundamental level. This teacher set a bad example for the students in her class. Not only that, but the very idea of curbing this student’s ability to express his political views as he sees fit (so long as they do not violate general standards of obscenity) is also diametrically opposed to what her son probably prides himself in fighting for.
You could say that the shouting matches of my fellow students was “something that should be delt with” but in actuality they were dealing with it in their own way, and so long as it was not disrupting the general atmosphere of the school, it wasn’t deamed a problem that the administration should act too harshly on. The end effect was that we actually learned something ourselves about these two people and the relationship that existed in the context of current events. Education through lived experience is sometimes the best method.
Uniforms are great for private schools and catholic schools and institutions, not public schools.
I understand that policies are policies, but a t-shirt as such with four words on it should not be taught to be offensive or a political statement. We live in an age where everything has to be politically correct and non-offensive to everyone and it goes way too far when a simple shirt such as this is considered to be a problem. No offensive language and no obscene images, no images of drugs, violence or weaponry. If this is the case than we can ban and send kids home to change every time they wear a military t-shirt, a flag t-shirt whether it be an American flag or a flag of a different country. Political statement right?
Lets stop looking at it as a restriction of freedom of expression or right and a simple moral issue of stupidity. We used to be able to wear metal t-shirts back in high school with images that could be taken as offensive simply because it might have a skeleton on it or even blood. How often did we get sent home or told to change it unless it had a swear word on it. Never.
Bottom line is if we can’t make political statements or express ourselves in a reasonable manner, whether it be a t-shirt with just four words on it expressing distaste in out political leaders decisions or protesting tight gym uniforms. We can teach our children to speak out in a civil manner or we can hush them. Hush them now and they might always be afraid to express themselves in their lives and fight for their rights after they are 18.
We can teach them right and wrong. This is wrong. If the kid was wearing a t-shirt that said “Baby killer” or “Fuck,shit piss, damn etc.” then those are wrong. If you honestly can say that that t-shirt could offend someone in school then we need to stop teaching politics, economics, social studies and history in school because some of that stuff can be offensive to the softies these days. Nothing good can come of teaching children that they can not express themselves in a civil manner or hold back their beliefs in a non-violent manner. Some people need to suck it up and drive on. If they start trying to change small things then they will start trying to change bigger things out in the “Public” places because they find them offensive.
UINiform the children then uniform the teachers. Uniform the teachers and then uniform their cars because the sight of a foreign car or a gas guzzling SUV might offend someone. Lets paint the school buses a shade of gray because someone might be offended by the color of the school bus. While we’re at it let’s take down the flag in front of the school because someone might find that offensive too.
Does all that sound a bit over-reactive? Well so does making a student change his shirt because it says four words on it in a manner that you don’t like.
Izzy. As I think more about this, your position creeps ever closer to a situation that is not only legally, but morally questionable. Where does this policy draw the line? If this kid could not wear a shirt with an anti-war political message then it is only right to hold all political viewpoints to this same standard, and make wearing pro-war attire off limits as well. Something that would undoubtedly cause a great stir in more than a few communities I’m sure. Essentially, you would have to ban political speech as a blanket policy, which is simply impractical. What of the kid in the US History class who wants to discuss his view on any number of topics? If he holds a viewpoint that the teacher feels is wrong but may be well thought out, what do we do?
I hate to use the phrase “slippery slope” since the situation you propose is more like, “already down the slope” to the point where we’re just nit picking the details of what we censor, but that’s pretty much what it is. There is nothing inherent in political speech that should keep it from being freely expressed wherever anyone feels the want or desire to do so as an individual.
Furthermore, the public schools are taxpayer funded and state-regulated, and as such are considered an arm of the government, and thus any attempt to stifle political speech can be seen as a government attempt to control political discourse. This is why students at the university I work at do not have the right to kick out the evangelical group that comes on campus every year spouting garbage about how god hates gay people and handicapped people deserve their afflictions. The institution is publicly funded, and as such is fair game for free speech, no matter how offensive their speech is to students. We go through it every year, and every year it is the same message, “we can’t do anything”. Public schools get away with it because they are more insulated and the kids are younger and don’t know any better.
Also, as MM has rightly pointed out, you could also make the argument that the message on the shirt is not a political one but rather a social one. If we then want to ban shirts with social messages then we need to ban shirts that say, “be nice to each other” as well. And what a shitty policy that would be.
I’m actually in favor of uniforms, even in public schools, for the teachers too. I’m in favor of it for various reasons, and actually curbing offensive or sexually suggestive attire is the least of it. I think uniforms would give students a better mindset in general. But that issue is really paranthetical to the one at hand, which is how you deal with political speech in a public school setting. There is nothing inherent in political speech that makes denying its expression until a certain age an appropriate policy.
After reading the actual thread, the policy does sound like a blanket ban on religious or political attire, but it is still an abhorrent policy nonetheless. The girl mentions an incident where a student was told to tuck his cross necklace in his shirt. The policy is lame, plain and simple. Its a typical administrative panacea. You get one or two incidents where someone wears a shirt that causes a stir and then sooner or later you’ve got blustery PTA members petitioning the school board to ban anti-war shirts, but they can’t do that of course, so they have to ban it all just to look square. Bottom line, the girl should be able to wear the shirt, the boy should be able to wear his cross out in sight. What the hell would they do if a muslim girl who wore a hijab went to that school? Should she have to pay for private schooling simply because she wears a scarf on her head?
Now if they had a policy that said no music band t-shirts, then that is a policy I could understand because that puts it straight across the board without question or prejudice. THAT would be a much better policy in this case. I can understand and respect dress codes much better than a vague policy that they are attempting to enforce. Uniforms, no. Dress code policy with a specific policy that makes it equal all the way around is much more easily understood and would prevent things like this from becoming an issue, but like I said, save Uniforms for professional institutions, private school, uniformed forces and the military.
Scott I found it sort of funny that you ” take down the flag because it might be offensive”. A community in California actually forced the firemen to remove the flags from their fire trucks because they may have been offensive to muslims. This happened just after 9/11. How does that make you feel?? Becaus it makes me pretty mad.
I fully feel that a public high school is no place to be making statements for or against any type of political statement. School is about education, not indoctrination. As for banning political speech, it is a lot easier then you would think it is. The place I work every year forces us to attend multiple ” sensitivity ” training sessions to learn how to avoid offending one another. the number 1 thing not to talk about- politics. facts are facts and they can be presented in a non-biased way. Unfortunately too many teachers ( not so much in high school, way too much in college ) are out ther indoctrinating. I accept that some classes need to allow such discussion ( AP history included a lot about politics ).
Furthermore public education is funded by taxpayer money. That means everyone. Which means the environment must be comfortable for everyone.
Finally I say this- I wish this were such a place where I could wera my cradle of filth shirt anywhere, not have to worry about hurting someone’s feelings. But the world is not like that.
See now that’s BS. This is America. If we can’t fly our flag proudly here, where the hell are we going to fly it? I wouldn’t go to another country to live and expect them to take their flag from my view because it might offend me. That’s stupid and the firemen that let them have their way are stupid as well for doing it.
“Furthermore public education is funded by taxpayer money. That means everyone. Which means the environment must be comfortable for everyone.”
Well this brings up another subject then. Everyone’s comfort. What about kids that get picked on or ridiculed. Who’s making them comfortable? Should they ban meats in the cafeteria to make the vegans comfortable? No because that would make others uncomfortable. You’re not going to please everyone all the time, especially in a public school.
A yellow ribbon pinned to someone’s lapel shows support of the troops and possibly support of war. A person can wear that and get away with it, but a person can not wear a t-shirt opposing the war? Furthermore you can support the troops without believing in supporting the war. We have veterans and active duty military that does not support the war. Is it unpatriotic to not support the war? No. Is it unpatriotic to deny a person the right to express them self without causing disorder? Yes.
You’re not going to make a public place comfortable for everyone no matter whose tax dollars pay for it. There is always going to be someone that doesn’t like something about someone or something else. They need to learn to deal with it instead of dismiss it. That’s life.
So I think at this point I am just going to throw in the towel. not out of defeat mind you. I admit I am probably one of 5 ( maybe 10 ) ultra conservative ultra metal heads in the world today. Which means that rarely do I find a fellow metal head who agrees with me when it comes to politics or religion. So I usually just quietly give up ( even though I know I am right hahaha ). Seriously this is a topic that will bnever get resolved in a manner that is fair for all. Because while one screams censorship and denial of rights, the other screams that their rights have been infringed upon. and that’s that.
So….has anyone heard the latest Motorhead? Is it good and should I buy it??
Oh and one more thing…I am very impressed by the ability of most to have a rational discussion and not lower themselves to immature name calling…as for you D, well you’re just a jerk.
Yeah, it’s nice to see we can have a heated yet civil discussion.
No idea on the Motorhead. I haven’t got out to buy a cd in a few weeks now and that’s not really something on my list.
I wore a shirt in highschool for the band ‘The Damned”. Technically Damned isn’t in anyway a cuss word at all, but I guess my geometry teacher thought so. I put up quite a struggle, until the guidance counselor talked me into just turning inside out for her class.
A few years back one of the assistant principals stopped me in the halls for wearing a hoodie that had a skull with two spoons behind it that said ” cereal killer” she took a bit to get the joke and accordingly told me that if I wanted to keep wearing it I would have to put a piece of tape over the word “killer”, so I did, and before I got 10 feet away I pulled out a sharpie and wrote “murderer” over the tape. If she wasn’t so damn fat she might have caught up to me, I wrote it while facing her.
But yeah, it’s stupid they made you change your shirt, and making the no politics in school argument just shows you why this country is so damn fucked up, if kids are told for 12 years they can’t talk about politics in public forum guess how much respect they will have for politics, it’s not like parents are going to do anything but preach their own values.
This story makes me want to buy some of these shirts and wear them to my school.
http://bloodbath.biz/merchandise.php especially the second one down hahah. I actually take Advanced American Goverment in my school btw. Her high school must just be shitty.
Yeah, that was covered here not too long ago as well. I understand their message, but i think it’s a pretty stupid looking t-shirt. Check it out here
Well I suppose it all comes down to the school administration “deeming” it inappropriate. Well that seems rather omnipotent of them to suddenly decide what offends people. Perhaps if another student or teacher had complained about the shirt, because they found it offensive, the administration should take note. But otherwise that’s a fairly arrogant attitude on their part if they feel they represent the opinions and values of all those around them.