Pointing Fingers | Christians Blame Metal | Metal Blames Christians
December 17, 2007 by Scott
With all the crap going on these days, with school and mall shootings, murder, serial murders and right wing nut jobs in the oval office; everyone wants somebody to point the finger at.You hear some Christians blaming some things such as violence in movies, video games and music, particularly heavy metal. Mostly because they don;t understand and metal has a bad reputation for being “The Devil’s Music”. You can’t say that they are completely wrong about that. I discussed that whole bit way back with Satan Sells…But Who’s Buying Part 1 and 2.
Now metal heads alike are not the type to take a hit sitting down and fire right back at the Christian world, blaming Christians for engulfing children into a lifestyle that is prison-like and full of persecution. Why, because metalheads don’t understand Christianity. Metal heads call Christians “Sheep”, and to this I have said that we are all sheep, just following different shepherds. I used to be one of those metalheads…and then I grew up. Learning from both sides I understand both worlds and have my arguments on both sides as well, but I’m not here to preach against either sect.
I think what we really need to do is look deep inside and point the finger in the right direction. Dez Fafara of Devildriver said in a recent interview that the person to blame is the parents. Look at it this way, puppies don’t grow up to be mean dogs if they have kind and loving owners, just like kids don’t grow up to be psychotic, gun toting murderers if they have the right guidance. If the Columbine parents were more involved with their children that tragedy would have not happened.My son has recently started to get into metal and likes Metallica, Megadeth, Black Sabbath and Twisted Sister (a pretty good start). I tell him time and time again that no matter what the song says just remember that it’s just music and enjoy it for what it is.I love the Cannibal Corpse song Stripped, Raped, and Strangled. I like the rhythm and the guitars. The lyrics are a bit foul but what do expect from Cannibal Corpse. I’m not raping or strangling anyone and I’m sure 99.999% of the other people out there that like that song aren’t doing any of that stuff either. It’s just a song about a serial killer, thats all, it’s just a song.
Now some people blame America’s gun laws. Compared to some countries our gun laws are pretty good. Criminals will find ways to get a firearm no matter what kind of laws you lay down. Don’t be so stupid to think that a “Law” will stop someone from doing something they are set out to do.
Then there is just the fact that some people go crazy. No matter how much guidance and communication they are fed, they still just snap! End of story.
Music no matter what it is, is not to blame for the things that stupid people go do. If these kids that go shoot up schools and kill people at churches would actually pay attention to their kids and show them the love and respect and attention that they need then they wouldn’t go do this stuff!!
This raises a few good points. For one thing, I believe that people don’t just do something because a song or a game told them to. For example, some of my friends are metalheads, others are gamers, and I’m somewhat of an indie, but we don’t go around killing people because a song told us to. Parent’s just don’t want to think that they’re the reason their kid killed someone. All the finger-pointing is complete BS.
As a metal head i agree. I listen to bands like said the shotgun to the head, but you dont see me kill myself or people around me with a shotgun. When it boils down to it there all just words and no matter how many times i listen to a song about how angry someone is, or how much someone hates the world i still hold my own opinion.
Good, no, great post. I think you summed this up better than most arguments I’ve heard. I get so sick of people saying my son shouldn’t listen to such and such because music is not now and won’t be the whole of who he is.
I agree that when it all comes down we can’t blame books, music, god, or anyone else. At the start are the people raising children. I wouldn’t condense it to parents though. I think if communities took an interest (as a whole) in the children of the community it would be insanely useful as well. We’re so shut off.
Not to mimic overdone quotes but it really does take a village; you know.
Very nicely done read.
I’m a christian and a metal head since forever. I had been the hell away from Church for years not because the music i listen, but i just don’t want to say yes to my mom, to go to her church. Simply because she hates my music.
Now i am back to church with my wife and kid for our own reasons (not to her church anyway) and i can’t see whysoever i should burn my Deicide collection (eventhough i won’t invite Glen to my Xmas party either, lol).
To resume, i agree with you that guidance and proper education of any kind are the key. If one blames the music or the lyrics, for me that’s idiocy.
This is so stupid. Christians are just WRONG. And gun laws need to be stricter! Lots stricter! Christianity is based on lies anyway–just watch Zeitgeist.com (the movie), you will understand–and Heavy Metal just gives those pompous @#*&$s something to blame besides themselves–they are the parents who teach the values who end up with kids who cause Columbine, etc….
I’m quite impressed with everyone input. Thank you.
Kat, so you base your beliefs on a movie? Hey how about this. We ban freedom of religion, and guns. next we dictate what people can and can not listen to…and then…then we can do some voodoo spell and raise Hitler from the grave to take over, cause all of Christianity is a lie….but magic is real!
I used to think the same way about religion because I didn’t understand but everyone that “doesn’t” beleive screams open minded rants but in reality you are also close minded.
They say Christians are Hypocrites but are we not all hypocrites? Sometimes think real hard about the things you say and then reflect back on thiose things when you catch yourself being stupid.
There is a way to go about doing things in this world and when you criticize someone for criticizing your beleifs then your no better and are just as much of a hypocrite as they are.
Like I said, bad people will find a way to do bad thing no matter what laws you lay down. Drug laws are pretty strict but people still sell drugs that probably kill more people every day than guns do.
By the way, I saw this movie with this giant gorilla that terrorized NY city back in the 30’s! Man that had to be a scary time for the big apple! I don;t know how they ever recovered from that!?!
No, my beliefs are in no way based on a movie, Ace. Don’t be a smart-ass. I was just trying to a quick way to demonstrate a synopsis of another possibility. What I do know, is Christianity is a lie. The idea behind it is nice–do unto to others–great. I love it. I love the ideology. Good stuff. But the Jesus stuff. The “Bible” I don’t buy it. And if you do, you are a fool. It’s just something started by politicians to control people. Expand your mind. Open your mind. Don’t be so afraid. Do some research and don’t be afraid of that politically devised place in your mind which keeps you from learning the truth known as HELL.
It is so sad that people like Kat can be so closed minded. To say that christians are just wrong but offer no information as to why we are wrong displays just nothing but uninformed close mindedness. Hell maybe if more people had good strong moral values ( be it christian, muslim ( yes, the Koran does preach moral values similar to christianity) judaism,etc) the youth of America would not be running around shooting up schools in Denver, or malls in Omaha. As for stricter gun laws, like Scott and any intelligent individual in the past has said,if someone plans to break the law using a gun, they will get the gun. Maybe if a teacher or school employee had been carrying a gun they could have stopped those idiots at Columbine.
Jennifer is dead on right about the importance of parental obligation. Again, I go back to Columbine. These kids were assembling an arsenal in their garage. I can say that had me and my friends been in the garage listening to loud music while building stuff, my father would have been out there in about .5 seconds just to see what was going on. And the ass whipping would have been severe if I was doing something wrong ( and no, my dad did not beat me and my brother, but my parents raised us with strong moral and family values, so even though we both listen to lots of metal and hardcore rap, we don’t run around killing people). Parents are too afraid to discipline their children. Parents are so liberal that they give their children rights they shouldn’t have. Step up moms and dads and get into what your kid are doing and maybe you will be able to stop stuff like this.
I leave you with this interesting comment from a book I read last year ( and no the book was not partisan- neither republican propaganda ( which I say sarcastically, being super conservative ) or liberal crap)- People run around screaming for gun control. Guns kill so they should be outlawed. Consider this- more people drown in swimming pools every year then are killed in gun violence. Maybe we should outlaw swimming pools?
Oh my gosh! How did I get here! Obviously, I am stuck in some Right wing ultra conservative Christian hoo ha head up their oh my goodness. There’s is absolutely no reasoning with people like you because you are lost in your own Holier than thou pretentious worlds. You wouldn’t know the truth if it … oh nevermind.
I’m out of here.
Peace out Kat. You won’t be missed.
We are not “Ultra conservative right wing whatevers”, ok we are grown up people that understand metal AND Christianity and will defend both with an OPEN MIND. So you don’t believe in God, oh well, I used to be the same way. I don’t hate you for it. But I don’t like the fact that you trample upon other people’s beliefs. Thats not what this post was about. It was about pointing the finger in the right direction, to the home.
The bottom line, Kat, is that you don’t need church or religion in order to have good moral values, I understand that. Every religion has its flaws and bad apples. I would like to think that everything in the bible is true, but I’d be stupid to say that everything in there is true, but I doubt if it is all lies.
There are a lot of great things about religion as there is a lot of not so great things like the fact that every war in history has always been fought over religion in one way or another if you know what I mean.
I’m sure you mean well as do I, but the reality of this whole situation is that yes, guns are too easy to get. But if they don’t get them legally they will find other means. If the parents of any of these children paid simple attention to them they would see that they were troubled and needed help instead of avoiding the situation and letting it escalate to the boiling point when innocent people die for no reason. Your opinion and input is appreciated. (and I’m not being a smart-ass this time)
Cheers Kat. See you in Hell.
Kat sounds like one of those LaVeyan satanists who base all their beliefs on a charismatic carnie who wrote a book and slapped a pentagram on the cover. We all have our own beliefs and ideals that we follow, but in no way shape or form will that change what I like in my music. Everyone, it seems, needs a scapegoat, and as we grow as a society, so does the need to pin the blame. I agree with Scott, it would be ridiculous on my part to give a devout Christian grief for keeping their beliefs when I have my own belief structure and wish not to be judged. So if I don’t agree with you, fine, i’ll just go and listen to some Strapping Young Lad and you can go do whatever you like. No harm no foul.
I think metal is the bomb. If it wern’t for metal I’d be a complete loser. Metal is my love. metal is my life. if metal were jesus then I’d believe in God.
I listen to metal, play the most violent games you can think of, watch the goriest movies imaginable. But I don’t have any urges to kill people, I do agree that the parents need to step up and discipline there kids when they catch them doing stuff they aren’t supposed to be doing, as Jennifer stated. My beliefs on religion are that someone creates a religion to give people a reason to live and have them trying to be good people, but this creates many conflicts after more religions are created they fight starting wars. You look at the war in Iraq right now, conflicting religions is causing it. World War 2, was caused by German’s disagreeing with the Jewish religion and of course the near extermination of that group of people. I don’t believe we really can point the finger at any group of people be it religion, or parents. They are all a part of the problem and can all be part of the solution. If people would stop pointing fingers and try to actually figure out what is causing this sudden rise in violence instead of accusing something like metal or religion, we could all figure this out and fix it. But alas, everybody will still fight, conflict, and accuse.
Damn Straight, it’s about time someone pointed out these clear facts and set the rules straight. Good on you SCOTT, you fucking Kickass.
Cheers Man!
badfishcannibal and bloodhawk both seem to share my opinions. I was a bit more outspoken on how much I am AGAINST christianity, and religion in general…. and you will notice how quickly the “good Christians” (with the exception of you, Scott, and for this I thank you) attacked me, verbally, and accused me of being a LeVeyan Satanist, said “See you in Hell, Kat!”, called me closed minded, told me to go away… ETC…. (THAT’S my example, FOR NOW, of how “xtians say one thing about how they are supposed to be and act another way). For everyones’ information, I am not a Satanist or any sort of RELIGION at all. Completely the opposite. I am nothing. An agnostic. Recently I lost two brothers. They died. Poof! I prayed. Me! Stupid me. What a fool! They still died. Life sucks. See, even me, in my dispair, I could almost understand how people can feel the need to hold on to something to give their lives meaning, but when they see the reality, like I have, that it’s all bullshit. It’s all a crutch. And, if there was some grand deity, then he/she was laughing it’s ass off at me while my brothers died in the hospital and I was on my knees. Now, I choose not to believe that any GOD would be that cruel.
Now, back to Heavy Metal! I love it. I need it! I think it is GOOD!!!!
Sorry for going off on your religious beliefs.
I’m sorry for your loss, Kat and I understand. I lost my faith when I was 15 and saw a 14 year old kid have a heart attack at a Christian summer camp. It’s very easy to lose your faith and it’s a lot harder to get it back. Christianity teaches a lot of great principles to live by, but human nature is a bitch and people can be assholes whether they believe or not. I’m not one of those people that look down upon people that don’t believe, but it’s a tough argument for whichever side you debate for and you have to bring a strong argument. Metal on!
i’m going to reserve my views on christianity for now, considering i was forced to go to church and catholic schools till i was about 14, so i’m still pretty bloody bitter about the whole deal. regardless what side you support, blaming metal or blaming christians is just a way for people to dodge the bullet. it’s a lot easier to go, “it was those bastards in juda priest” then to say “i fucked up as a parent”
am 41 & a combat veteran of 2 deployments in iraq.i reenlisted after a 13 year break in service in 2004 & now in 2009 am awaiting med. boad discharge for injuries sustained in combat.in short.i suffer from severe post traumatic stress disorder & mild traumatic brain injury.i have had inadequate therepy here at ft. drum & even had a therepist drop me as a patient & drop my medication of valium without drawing it down which can cause siezures.her reasoning for this was that my childhood trauma was so severe that she could not help me so she abandoned me.by the way that child hood trauma was caused from christian parents & attending a public school that used the pervertion of corporal punishment ( spare the rod spoil the child) due to the therepy being droped my commander tried to chapter me under a personality disorder. i got a lawyer & threatened to write my congresman in my state & go to the media they dropped the chapter & are now taking responsibility for my injuries & i will be med boarded out with a disability rating.heavy metal has been there with me all my life .since the therepy has been so pore & inefective i have taken up bass guitar as a therepy & when i get out & am healed from my injuries my plan is to start a hard rock heavy metal band & join the counter culture because i have been so screwd by the culture all my 41 years. they say young angry males get into this music well i gues i’m the acception & am proud of it.
Todd, I spent 6 years at Drum and I understand what a shitty place it is and what poor medical attention everyone gets. Misdiagnosis, treating every patient as if they are malingering and such. It’s a royal pain in the ass. I often hated to go to Sick Call because I would always get treated like I was trying to fake it. Hang in there, brother. Don’t blame too much on the Christian culture. They have their flaws but most of them mean well.
I Stumbled upon this and laughed so hard…..I Am a Christian and i LOVE metal. There is a thing such as christian metal and most of the bands are amazing. If you dont believe me go look up impending doom, with blood comes cleansing, for today, at the throne of judgment, and or earth from above. If you dont consider them metal than you are an idiot who probably listens to NU metal and doesnt know the difference LolZzZz. Anywayz, i havent heard a church complain about this in years. and if they have they are probably baptist/church of christ church because they are crazy. My old youth minister even liked some of my music and is happy that ive found something that i love and that is good for my faith. Im really tired of my faith being slammed because everyone thinks we listed to acoustic rock and or gossiple music. that music is lame and i hate it with a passion. Im sorry that people have complained over the years but seriously youve got to get over it. they are just going to keep complaining. i know they suck. but like i said there are churches who arent absolutely insane. i have tons of atheist friends and we all get along fine because we all like metal. there is no reason to sit here and cry about it. im sorry so many christians you meet now and days suck at life. youve got to understand most them were forced to be in the religion and want nothing really to do with it. And thats not how it should happen at all. dont blame all of the christians. i would never tell you hey dont listen to that, youre going to hell. im so tired of that stereotype. I love the fact that people are so easy to say christians are stupid and their religion is a lie yet call us close minded. I love how the say we all judge people yet has never met me. and they call us hypocrites. I get that we arent perfect. i really do. and if anyone in my church said we were then i would call them an idiot. NO ONE IS PERFECT. But metal is awesome…..also like i stated at the beginning, i stumbled across this and will never be back to read it. i just wanted to stand up for christians who are not crazy and hopefully change a few opinions about us. im not trying to convert i just want everyone to understand that there are some sane christians in the world.
Damn, dude. Did you even grasp (Or read) the point of the article or read the comments?
so Bla Blah615 proves my point wants to leave a comment even e-mail me but doesn’t want to here back or have an open forum for discusion.here again it proves christians are conditioned to believe & act in one way & not except anything else.without christianity there would be no heavy metal or counter culture so in a way thank you.also it’s great that the u.s. still hasn’t outlawed corporal punishment & in states,mainly in the south bible belt regions were it is used low & behold the test scores are lower drop out rates higher.in coutries like europe were it has been outlawed for decades they have great schools that are progressive in style non confrontational towards students & score much higher than u.s. schools do on unicef ranking scale than u.s. ever will.they also don’t have this dilema about teaching evolution like here.but Bla Blah615 doesn’t want fact’s just wants to live in a delusion & narow minded reality that offers no room for open forum discusion you proved my point thank & on may 1st i will be out of the army & on my way to laying down demo tracks to our first recording & thank you to the christians keep up the abuse at home & at school here in america & i will be sure to make the mosh pit go crazy & the family of heavy metal will welcome the disafected you create with open arms.it’s gods pressure release valve to keep us from hurting other people or our selves.
And you, Todd, just made a stereotypical comment that all Christians are Closed minded and ignorant…which is also very closed minded and ignorant.
if BlaBlah615 had kept an open forum or kept it between myself & whoever he or she is through e-mail this would not have happened on your site. so he made my point clear.
tit for tat live with that.
now I am a eelgios but contempraoy christan. I believe things liek homseoxualtiy are sin. now I’malos metla head who’s rprpey buty also enjoys gothic music, 9gothic metal, gothic, rock darwavem)and punk and emo. now i don’t ernjoy all forms of emtel. iodn’tr death emtal wit the excpetino ofarhcy enem posbibiyl. I do liek christan death emtal. Im’ soemne woh don’t the scremaign or the clean vocals. Now wihle I don’t liek part ote hylris cth at satnaic, I think peope to stop blamign everthing. there are chrsitan metla ands like devil wear prada nd hcriitan liek flyleaf, and skillet, and evne christian gothc metla liek saivour machien and roaly angusih wihhc is alo christian doom. there are both and mel femaled chrsitan metla rock etc, there are christia goths for exmape too. go to christiansgoths.com, not all emtal is evil and not all us who lstien to do soemthign terible. and not all christians are like that. marlyian mansion isn’t even goth.
lolwut?
patty you sent me an e-mail & i got back onto this page here only to find the same thing here & all i can say is what???? & again what ???? either you are forien,can’t spell ( which mine isn’t perfect but goodness)or you are flipping letters but again what ???
For those of you who believe stricter gun laws are the answer, take note of australia’s recent endeavors in gun control: http://thewild.zimarik.com/?p=333
Also, i should note the case of kennesaw, ga. (google it yourself).
As for the christians, they have most likely been mislead, but not by some intentional conspiracy but rather by a religion that simply evolved out of older religions, all eventually rooted in astronomy.
And not to jump on the bandwagon, but kat is an idiot. Just had to be said.
i bid you all fare well & good bye. i am leaving my curent place of residency am moving on to begin my career in hard rock & heavy metal to provide the outlet for the disafected that the christian culture has created.it is alive & well with it’s rigid spare the rod authoritarianism which is most prevalent in the southern states in education as well as at home.this country can’t seem to get it’s head out of the dark ages were childrens rights are concerned!! so much the better, you continue to create the disafected that will fill the mosh pit i will be more than happy to drive crazy & the family of heavy metal will, as always, welcome them with open arms.my name will be changed soon to keep those who wish to ride my coat tales off as well as to keep certain others private.so again i say good bye & i will see some of you open minded ones from the stage & the others? well you have shut the door so what do you care right? “were off to the witch we may never ever ever come home but the magic that we’ll feel will walk a life time, we’ll know for the first time if were evil or devine were the last in line…..” ( lyrics by ronnie james dio )
I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of people looking at Metal from the outside don’t understand that it’s 99% show. It’s a production. Even some metalheads don’t get this. They get lost in the imagery.
There is a really good documentary that explores this called “Metal: A Headbanger’s Journey”.
The ultimate point is that metal is like opera. It’s about grand and bombastic productions that often highlight the darker side of human nature, warfare, violence, sadism, etc, but hardly ever in a didactic “you should actually do this stuff in real life because it’s cool” way.
On the subject of Christians who think Metal is a source of violent drives in people, one need only look at the Bible to find some pretty gruesome examples of human behavior. And in many cases that book actually outright endorses that behavior. The point is most Christians are smart enough to look past all of it and see it for what it is.
Great point, Ride.
The best thing about growing older and maturing is that you learn to take things in stride and not so much to heart.
One of the biggest things about metal is the teaching to “Think for yourself” and that’s obviously over-thought by some people. It’s a great concept but rarely followed, especially by metal fans as they are influenced by their music just as much as other people are influenced by other music genres.
When you get past all the superficial bullshit you learn to think for yourself and enjoy metal for what it truly and solely is…music.
When you start taking the music and messages too serious, especially in anti-christian beliefs you become what you’ve learned to hate; people preaching to you what is right and wrong, true and false.
(Inb4 /i/)
Just throwing this out there – there is some AMAZING christian metal out there. Check out Theocracy, Harmony, Demon Hunter, and Vanden Plas – just to name a few. I’ve been a christian for most of my life, and this music has done nothing but reinforce my faith. I’d HIGHLY recommend theocracy (www.theocracymusic.com). Just superb.
And also, I feel the need to clear up something. “I don’t buy it. And if you do, you are a fool. It’s just something started by politicians to control people.”. WOW. Actually, Christians were PROSECUTED for their beliefs by the religious leaders of the day. Being a Christian back when it began meant death in a lot of cases. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of misinformation / conspiracy theorys going around that make people so anti-faith.
XKCD amirite?
http://xkcd.com/386/
Btw this address –> chalpirzor@garrifulio.mailexpire.com
Will be active for 2 weeks. I’d love to discuss this with any of ya’ll more. Even if you’d like to just tell me I’m stupid, it’s all good.
I’m a Christian, and I LOVE heavy metal. It’s true that there are some Satanic bands out there, but there are also a lot of really good metal bands. A lot of them CHRISTIAN. So, pointing fingers at these bands, it’s not right, the music can’t MAKE anyone do anything, and you really need to look at the person, not the things AROUND the person. That person needs to take responsibility for their actions, and I think that people blaming the music or other things around the person are just giving that person a way to avoid the responsibility they may need.
whoa whoa whoa. not all christians blame music, movies, etc. I am a christian, and i have been since i was old enough to think for myself, i will be a christian until the day i die, but do i think any differently than what this article has to say? No. not at all. I see kids in my church who are there because they need a loving family. I have the GREATEST church i have ever seen. but i do think that parents are to blame. DUH. I love slayer, Megadeath, Anthrax, all the greats. Im more of a thrash metal head myself. but whatever. friends from my church and i get together and listen to whatever we want. but we all still believe the way we do, and we still all listen to what we want and we aren’t going around killing people, or in any other way wrecking Havoc on humankind. I think that there is a very delicate balance to the way children should be raised, and that balance differs with each child. Everyone has a different personality and needs different things. I am very independent, however, i know others who are not, if their parents had raised them the way mine raised me, they would have some serious issues. if i was as sheltered as they were and basically caged up, i would probably have a gun to someone’s head, yeah. but i would also not be listening to thrash metal.i think the blame is different for each person who goes totally psycho. for some, yeah. they could be completely sheltered from the outside world and these kids go around thinking that nothing is real or has any real consequence, but oops. it does. and another could have a severe chemical imbalace that could be treated if the parents had paid enough attention to have it diagnosed. However. There is no one to blame but these people themselves, whether they blame parental control or a form of outside stimulation, it was them who did what they did, and they have no one to blame but themselves. the only exception to this would be someone who is clinically insane or not in control of their own actions. this is a pointless debate, because neither religion nor music, video games nor parents are to blame. The blame lies with the accused.